Post by Tzalaran on Sept 8, 2008 19:46:54 GMT -6
Who will bring Change?
Here is a post from a thread there and a few of my replies. just didn't wanna retype everything.
Colleen-505704
I find it interesting that anyone would think that when Obama says he wants change that it means anything. HELLO!!! there will be change with him since he is a Democrat and we have a Republican in office. My point is…that is what is said every time it is the opposite party. The REAL change comes from someone in the same party. That has some of the same values but also disagrees with the party in other areas. The true “change phrase” belongs to McCain.
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Reply#15 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 2:39 PM CDT
Kathy-383188
Your comment reminds me of the story in the scriptures of the people that left Egypt with Moses. They all had to die off before the people were able to reach the promise land. It seems to me that the status quo who has been in power and refuses to see that things need to change is unwilling and unable to let go.
I appreciate and love the young people who have been galvanized this election cycle. They have not grown up with the prejudice and hate that the over 50 crowd has.
This election belongs to the new.
Obama '08
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#15.1 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 3:12 PM CDT
Colleen-505704
Kathy unfortunately the young are naive and when they have more experience and have to pay more taxes to pay for everyone in the United States they realize that the Republican way is best. I am hoping that the young generation just does not listen to what Obama says and really look at the issues and his experience.
Sorry you do not like my comment but usually when there is truth someone like you has to make a comment like you did reminding you of a story in the bible. McCain and Palin will make changes that is needed for us going into the future and it has nothing to do with unwilling or unable to let go. Love ya Kathy.
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#15.3 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 3:48 PM CDT
sweet fern
Well, Bush certainly did some REAL changing, when he took over after Clinton.............The problem is we are sliding into the DARK AGES.........I will be giving Obama a chance to turn the direction back towards the light...........If McCain changes anything it will be total DARKNESS.
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#15.4 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 4:00 PM CDT
Colleen-505704
sweet fern can you explain to me what you mean when you said that McCain will be total Darkness? What does total darkness mean and are you psychic and can see the future? I doubt it so your comments have absolutely NO MERIT. Vote for Obama and I cannot wait to see how disappointed everyone will be.
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#15.5 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 4:09 PM CDT
tom-473617
Colleen, what's the "Republican way that's best"? Run the country into debt, dismantle the country's infrastructure (case in point FEMA's Hurricane Katrina response), rush into an unnecesary war with Iraq.... is that the best?
Historically, the nation's economy has grown under Democratic presidents. Is that a bad thing?
Obama wants to CUT my taxes more than McCain does. Is that a bad thing?
I'm 41, married, two kids, homeowner, college educated, entrepeneur, solidly middle/upper-middle class.... When exactly am I supposed to switch to Republican?
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#15.6 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 6:45 PM CDT
Tzalaran
There is no change with McCain and Palin.
here are examples of McCain's change:
McCain has the exact same lobyists he is railing against running his campaign. He has wholly embraced the Bush/Rove campaign tactics that he abhorred in 2000, and hired the same team that were the visionaries that smeared him and his adopted daughter in that election.
He has changed his position on drilling offshore to satisfy his party. will continue to allow Oil companies to slow down production of next generation fuels while there is still Oil to be purchased, no matter what the cost.
Palin's pork cutting line item vetos that brought her fame were all reversed once she found out what the funding was for. she didn't learn about the bill before the veto, and that shows snap judgment in complete line with GWB and McCain.
McCain is itching to start war with Iran and Russia, and has a worldview that does not allow differences other than black and white, us vs. them, and he is entirely too eager to put the US military to work to "Stand up to those that don't" (agree with American views).
Obama's plans for change:
Sponsored bill in US senate that mandated that campaigns must run more transparent.
Has run a campaign on the issues, and has not attempted to smear his opponents, only point out policy disagreements (sounds like what McCain wanted in 2000 to me...) Use models from Montana, Pennsylvania, and other places around the country that have mandated that 20% of their electricity be generated from clean renewables, and apply this to the entire nation. has a broad encompassing platform that will encourage innovation and develop the next generation of renewable fuels.
Obama's health care plan will make premiums cheaper for those who already have private insurance, and will eliminate the Pre-existing condition bar that holds so many Americans from having health insurance. for those who don't have care, they will get the same service that congress, which McCain was in when this was put in place, gave themselves. it will in part be paid for by removing tax loopholes from corporate drug dealers, who are flat out raping the American people in efforts to maximize profits.
Obama will end the occupation of Iraq, and refocus the military on finding and capturing Bin Laden and securing Afghanistan so that the Khmer pass region will no longer be a safe haven for terrorists. He will work through diplomacy to strengthen our nations alliances, while seeing the world in its infinite shades of grey that do not allow typical stereotypes.
All of these points were easily found out by watching the Democratic and Republican conventions on Cspan or PBS, instead of watching the media pundits blab on about pointless things on all the major networks.
Colleen-505704: What they mean is that the light of the world that was America will be extinguished by a collapsed economy, stubborn refusal to negotiate in world affairs, the rest of the world will mock us as our veterans continue to be living on the street and no american is able to afford health care, and America falls like Ancient Greece and Rome because of our own corruption and complacency.
i was an avid McCain supporter in 2000. i thought he was a great hero, a maverick for the american people, and would work to defend us in all things. That man is dead, replaced by this simulacrum whom has embraced all of the things that he was fighting against in 2000. had he selected lieberman as his VP candidate, i may still have voted for him, but he went with a VP candidate that was a plea to the republican base - pro life, family values (which i think are hypocritical), right wing conservative.
The entire Republican convention was a lesson in SwiftBoating. no mention of platform or policy, except anti abortion, drill drill drill now, and we won't increase taxes.
Abortion is a political null score, won't change anyone's opinions on it. drill drill drill now is not an answer to America's energy problems, just a bridge in a larger energy policy (Obama is not against drilling fyi, he would happily open offshore drilling as part of a larger energy policy). Obama's plan doesn't increase taxes on anyone making less than $250,000 per year, which the republicans at the convention constantly lied on, while McCain's Health care and tax plan will make all the deductions from your paycheck that are currently Pre-tax deductions taxable. that will increase the taxes that i pay by around $10,000 per year for my family of 4. That is a tax increase the way i look at it, while Obama's plan will reduce the taxes i pay from $1000 to $300 depending on my tax bracket. ($40,000 - $60,000).
Democrats don't want government control of everything as the republicans are trying to paint it, they just want a government that works. The current administration has made this country's government so inefficient and bloated that nothing works anymore. McCain has agreed with every move made in doing so, and anyone stating that change is bucking your own party to get things different is living in a state of delusion. As i pointed out earlier, McCain the maverick is long gone, replaced with a shell of a man devoted to fulfilling his self admitted ambition of being the POTUS. read his book, he admits that he wants the presidency to fulfill that ambition, and he has displaced that ambition onto his "enemy". The man who wanted a respectful debate on the issues has swallowed the Rove playbook and instead of discussing the issues, has labeled his "enemy" a left wing nutjob celebrity, who will increase taxes for middle america (false), and won't protect this country because he doesn't love it (false).
i could go on, but that is enough for now. Please tell me how i'm uninformed and delusional, because these are all facts that anyone who wants to find out can research just like i did.
The fact is McCain's website has the same platform GWB carried in 2000. you can see how many of those issues were acted on based on them still being issues this election.
-Political forum for the respectful discussion of ideas and policies.
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#15.7 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 7:05 PM CDT
Colleen-505704
Tzalaran – I could write all night countering your comments but I am just wasting my time with you because you are obviously voting for Obama and hey you can believe anything you want. I never said you were uninformed and delusional but as with any comments that people make supporting McCain and Palin you Democrats make assumptions and read others minds. I live in a state that has a Democratic Governor and the only thing that was done was increasing our state taxes. Our federal taxes are less now than when Clinton was in office. Yes…you mentioned the current administration that includes the majority of Democrats in Congress. Oppps I guess you forgot that. There is no way you can argue my comment that no matter what, Obama will be a change because he is running against the other party. The true change can only be made within the current party. If you go back into history people always want a change after a few terms but that party cannot solve their problem so then they go back to the other party. So…you are now not voting for McCain because of whom he picked for Vice President? Like many of the Democratic comments you must be psychic to read John McCains mind to know exactly why he chose Palin. I think she is an awesome pick and will be an asset for our country.
Tom-473617 – according to you everything that is wrong is because of Republicans. NOT!!! Please see my note above regarding the Congress. Obama says a lot of things but talk is cheap. Obama talks the talk but does not walk the walk. I have to give him credit for being a great inspirational speaker but his experience does not cut it for me.
New Thread
doris monroe
HOORAY for SARAH
Hillary, when he didn't pick you, I think everything is going to change for him.
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Reply#17 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 2:40 PM CDT
FelyaSoCal
i dont mean to be rude, doris, but please don't ever compare hillary clinton with sarah palin. sarah palin is well accomplished but she would not want to save your child in the case of rape and incest. she does not believe in science and other progressive goals. she is a right wing nut, thats all
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#17.1 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 3:15 PM CDT
More Kool-Aid Please
Gee Whizz....You sound just like that token cheerleader Hockey Mom with NO SUBSTANCE!
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#17.2 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 4:09 PM CDT
Sunshine11
I think that Sen.Obma showed great courage when he didn't choose Sen. Clinton as his VP, and you have to know that considerate amount of pressure was placed on him to do so. But he didn't think that she was the right choice for him, and so he didn't choose her. Even when all the women was saying that they will not vote for him if he didn't put her on his ticket. Regardless whether it was a right or wrong decision, the fact is he made it. She picked his choice.
We cannot say the same about McCain, McCain gave in to pressure from the Republican party, If you really paid any attention to what was going on, or even take a few minutes to read a newspaper, you would know that, Palin was not McCain choice for his VP he really wanted Joe Lieberman, or the Home Land Security guy. But his party pulled rank on him, and told him that they will not support him if he choose any of these people. So he choose Palin out of desperation.
She may turn out to be a good pick, but the fact remains that he can't change anything because he can't even pick his own VP. You all say that he stands up to his own party all the time but on this one important decision, he buckled. So it's like he vote with them again. And lets face it, we all know that McCain didn't choose Palin because he care about women and women issues, he pick her as bait, to collect any one that is unhappy that Sen. Hilary was not chosen.
You all should try to reason things in your head, think for yourselves, don't just talk because you could talk.
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#17.3 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 6:32 PM CDT
Tzalaran
let me see, Hillary started the swiftboating of Obama, and ran a very negative campaign in the primaries. she continued fighting on, and i didn't disagree with her doing so, but ran her campaign into the ground, absorbing enormous debt in the process. The nastiness that she showed him made him choosing her as VP no longer an option.
When they discussed the presidential election, she asked to be told if she was being seriously vetted, and at that time he told her that the chances of him choosing her were very slim.
The only ones who were talking about her as VP were the pundits, not the Obama campaign nor Clinton. i would have had serious doubts on Obama had he chosen someone who was so negative during the primary for the length of time that she was as his running mate.
In choosing Biden, it is my belief that he chose the person who's views on governing were the most like his own. It is common knowledge that he fears for his life should he win this election, and that fear is very founded based on the hate rhetoric that has been showered his was for the past 18 months. Biden's acceptance speech to the senate 30 years ago mirrored the service to country that Obama is outlining today. Biden and Obama are the perfect match for each other as i see it, Biden's experience in washington while still believing in the hope that American can be the shining jewel for freedom, justice, peace and prosperity that it was worldwide for the first 200 years of its existence.
Sarah Palin is an intelligent, devoted, attractive, and talented politician. Yet there are questions about her; abuse of power, why she left her town and state in such massive debt, why she initially took pork projects for her state but is now so against them, that have not been answered, and as the media tried to get to know these things, they were called sexist (i could bring up her comments about Clinton during the primary and show the absolute hypocrisy of the situation, but i'd just be singing to the choir). There is an absolute stonewall why the lobbyists and Rovian disciples get the time to brief her on what to say and how to say it. She is just another young politician that has been taken under the wing of the establishment and promised renown by adhering to their instructions. (She'll be president after McCain for sure, although i really do like Huckabee based on his platform and reluctance to dive into the smear and fear politics in his speech, but McCain is the one who will be able to continue the past 8 years' policies for the next 16...) that is all just simple math as far as politics go. always gotta groom the successor.
Voting for Palin because you have a vagina is a horrible thought process.
vote with her because you think that abortion is always wrong and women shouldn't have that option, vote with her because you think that her experience with Alaska's resources would assist on the energy issues that face the country, vote with her because you believe the words she spoke at the convention or an appearance touched your heart. The truth is that Palin is diametrically opposed to the things that HRC stood for on policy and the direction that HRC herself feels the country needs to go, she said as much at the convention and in the remarks to the media since the nomination of Palin.
Post from different thread
I have always been a republican, and again i will vote that way in this presidential Election, I respect the fact of what obama has accomplished and in the future perhaps he will be ready.. But. not yet
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Reply#20 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 2:43 PM CDT
DGetch
This is exactly right. I would also say that Hilary should be praised for her run and opening the eyes of people to the possibly of more females sharing in the running of this country. I have to say that Palin will be a better Vice-President.
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#20.1 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 3:15 PM CDT
Tzalaran
This is the biggest load of crap that i continually hear. "i've been Republican forever, and it will stay this way this year. maybe in the future Obama will be "ready", but not right now." Just come out and say that no matter how bad the situation is, you buy into the republican theory and won't vote for a Democrat. at least be honest with yourself...
you fawn all over McCain and Palin's experience, yet experience is never a prerequisite for the Presidency. No first term President ever has experience that will prepare them for governing the US, so what is really important is their platform, policies, and vision for the country. The conventions highlighted the difference between Obama and McCain's platform, policies, and vision.
Obama has lofty goals, brilliant rhetoric, and outlined his platform with as much detail as possible, giving examples of the small scale policies that are currently working that will be adopted across the US.
McCain gave us smear, fear, and hate speech. divisive Rove politics with promises of no abortion, drill drill drill, and war.
i was once a solid supporter of McCain. the man i knew in the 80s and 90s had my respect and vote, but this man who has been presented is not the same maverick that he wants to claim he is.
The others who commented about their being a congressional majority for the Dems, but they are getting nothing done in the Senate is not all the fault of Democrats. GW has thrown the veto pen all over any bill that wasn't republican originated, and now the Republican's are throwing the poor congressional rating at the feet of the Dems. The truth is that without both parties working together, our democracy remains broken. Obama has shown the ability to cross party lines, sponsoring bills that reformed campaigns and stopping weapons from going to those who shouldn't have them with Republicans because it was the right thing to do. McCain can't give a single example of working across party lines in the past 10 years (ok maybe 8), but wants me to believe that he will no longer follow the lead of the lobbyists and power elite that now help him run his campaign. That, combined with his long talked about penchant for shooting from the hip and fiery temper, mixed with his disposition to use american force and play big bully on the block (exemplified of his speaking about Iraq before we had dealt with Afghanistan and the Taliban) provide serious questions about his disposition and fitness for the presidency.
Obama, through the rigors of his long presidential bid, has withstood criticism, all out attacks, and some intense backlash. He has never stooped to the levels of his opponent, keeping the discussion on issues, and the difference between his and his opponents views. Honestly, if anyone ever compared me to Brittney or Paris would get socked in the mouth the first time i saw them... He has shown the ability to work with his rivals for the betterment of all, and that has been his primary focus. This has shown that he possesses the restraint and judgment to make the necessary decisions when dealing with those who do not share his worldview. His openness to drop preconditions when dealing with foreign leaders shows that he appreciates the differences between cultures, not that he wants to bring them here, but knows that without clear, direct diplomacy can we really begin the path to peace. Many countries that are hostile to the US are angry because of the actions of the American government toward them, and if we refuse to talk to them until they do certain things they have no reason to come to the table and deal with American arrogance. By dropping preconditions, he is in the position to meet with leaders and work out the path to open peace. This is something that has been severely lacking in the current administration, and i see no reason to believe that McCain will offer a difference in this regard.
We have allowed our deep rooted pride in our country to be perverted into an ideological nightmare on the world stage. This downward path on the world stage has taken a turn for the worse with the debacle in Iraq, combined with the mismanagement and affronts to international law to make the call to justice a hollow joke when spoken by the current administration. Working to repair the bonds that the U.S. had with countries across the world is something that is desperately needed right now, and from what i have seen, Obama is better dispositioned to affect these estranged relationships with other nations and bring them back into the cause of justice. This is what the American people deserve, and McCain has basically stated that he will not approach foreign policy like this, and the people of this country deserve more than that.
Here is a post from a thread there and a few of my replies. just didn't wanna retype everything.
Colleen-505704
I find it interesting that anyone would think that when Obama says he wants change that it means anything. HELLO!!! there will be change with him since he is a Democrat and we have a Republican in office. My point is…that is what is said every time it is the opposite party. The REAL change comes from someone in the same party. That has some of the same values but also disagrees with the party in other areas. The true “change phrase” belongs to McCain.
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Reply#15 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 2:39 PM CDT
Kathy-383188
Your comment reminds me of the story in the scriptures of the people that left Egypt with Moses. They all had to die off before the people were able to reach the promise land. It seems to me that the status quo who has been in power and refuses to see that things need to change is unwilling and unable to let go.
I appreciate and love the young people who have been galvanized this election cycle. They have not grown up with the prejudice and hate that the over 50 crowd has.
This election belongs to the new.
Obama '08
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#15.1 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 3:12 PM CDT
Colleen-505704
Kathy unfortunately the young are naive and when they have more experience and have to pay more taxes to pay for everyone in the United States they realize that the Republican way is best. I am hoping that the young generation just does not listen to what Obama says and really look at the issues and his experience.
Sorry you do not like my comment but usually when there is truth someone like you has to make a comment like you did reminding you of a story in the bible. McCain and Palin will make changes that is needed for us going into the future and it has nothing to do with unwilling or unable to let go. Love ya Kathy.
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#15.3 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 3:48 PM CDT
sweet fern
Well, Bush certainly did some REAL changing, when he took over after Clinton.............The problem is we are sliding into the DARK AGES.........I will be giving Obama a chance to turn the direction back towards the light...........If McCain changes anything it will be total DARKNESS.
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#15.4 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 4:00 PM CDT
Colleen-505704
sweet fern can you explain to me what you mean when you said that McCain will be total Darkness? What does total darkness mean and are you psychic and can see the future? I doubt it so your comments have absolutely NO MERIT. Vote for Obama and I cannot wait to see how disappointed everyone will be.
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#15.5 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 4:09 PM CDT
tom-473617
Colleen, what's the "Republican way that's best"? Run the country into debt, dismantle the country's infrastructure (case in point FEMA's Hurricane Katrina response), rush into an unnecesary war with Iraq.... is that the best?
Historically, the nation's economy has grown under Democratic presidents. Is that a bad thing?
Obama wants to CUT my taxes more than McCain does. Is that a bad thing?
I'm 41, married, two kids, homeowner, college educated, entrepeneur, solidly middle/upper-middle class.... When exactly am I supposed to switch to Republican?
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#15.6 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 6:45 PM CDT
Tzalaran
There is no change with McCain and Palin.
here are examples of McCain's change:
McCain has the exact same lobyists he is railing against running his campaign. He has wholly embraced the Bush/Rove campaign tactics that he abhorred in 2000, and hired the same team that were the visionaries that smeared him and his adopted daughter in that election.
He has changed his position on drilling offshore to satisfy his party. will continue to allow Oil companies to slow down production of next generation fuels while there is still Oil to be purchased, no matter what the cost.
Palin's pork cutting line item vetos that brought her fame were all reversed once she found out what the funding was for. she didn't learn about the bill before the veto, and that shows snap judgment in complete line with GWB and McCain.
McCain is itching to start war with Iran and Russia, and has a worldview that does not allow differences other than black and white, us vs. them, and he is entirely too eager to put the US military to work to "Stand up to those that don't" (agree with American views).
Obama's plans for change:
Sponsored bill in US senate that mandated that campaigns must run more transparent.
Has run a campaign on the issues, and has not attempted to smear his opponents, only point out policy disagreements (sounds like what McCain wanted in 2000 to me...) Use models from Montana, Pennsylvania, and other places around the country that have mandated that 20% of their electricity be generated from clean renewables, and apply this to the entire nation. has a broad encompassing platform that will encourage innovation and develop the next generation of renewable fuels.
Obama's health care plan will make premiums cheaper for those who already have private insurance, and will eliminate the Pre-existing condition bar that holds so many Americans from having health insurance. for those who don't have care, they will get the same service that congress, which McCain was in when this was put in place, gave themselves. it will in part be paid for by removing tax loopholes from corporate drug dealers, who are flat out raping the American people in efforts to maximize profits.
Obama will end the occupation of Iraq, and refocus the military on finding and capturing Bin Laden and securing Afghanistan so that the Khmer pass region will no longer be a safe haven for terrorists. He will work through diplomacy to strengthen our nations alliances, while seeing the world in its infinite shades of grey that do not allow typical stereotypes.
All of these points were easily found out by watching the Democratic and Republican conventions on Cspan or PBS, instead of watching the media pundits blab on about pointless things on all the major networks.
Colleen-505704: What they mean is that the light of the world that was America will be extinguished by a collapsed economy, stubborn refusal to negotiate in world affairs, the rest of the world will mock us as our veterans continue to be living on the street and no american is able to afford health care, and America falls like Ancient Greece and Rome because of our own corruption and complacency.
i was an avid McCain supporter in 2000. i thought he was a great hero, a maverick for the american people, and would work to defend us in all things. That man is dead, replaced by this simulacrum whom has embraced all of the things that he was fighting against in 2000. had he selected lieberman as his VP candidate, i may still have voted for him, but he went with a VP candidate that was a plea to the republican base - pro life, family values (which i think are hypocritical), right wing conservative.
The entire Republican convention was a lesson in SwiftBoating. no mention of platform or policy, except anti abortion, drill drill drill now, and we won't increase taxes.
Abortion is a political null score, won't change anyone's opinions on it. drill drill drill now is not an answer to America's energy problems, just a bridge in a larger energy policy (Obama is not against drilling fyi, he would happily open offshore drilling as part of a larger energy policy). Obama's plan doesn't increase taxes on anyone making less than $250,000 per year, which the republicans at the convention constantly lied on, while McCain's Health care and tax plan will make all the deductions from your paycheck that are currently Pre-tax deductions taxable. that will increase the taxes that i pay by around $10,000 per year for my family of 4. That is a tax increase the way i look at it, while Obama's plan will reduce the taxes i pay from $1000 to $300 depending on my tax bracket. ($40,000 - $60,000).
Democrats don't want government control of everything as the republicans are trying to paint it, they just want a government that works. The current administration has made this country's government so inefficient and bloated that nothing works anymore. McCain has agreed with every move made in doing so, and anyone stating that change is bucking your own party to get things different is living in a state of delusion. As i pointed out earlier, McCain the maverick is long gone, replaced with a shell of a man devoted to fulfilling his self admitted ambition of being the POTUS. read his book, he admits that he wants the presidency to fulfill that ambition, and he has displaced that ambition onto his "enemy". The man who wanted a respectful debate on the issues has swallowed the Rove playbook and instead of discussing the issues, has labeled his "enemy" a left wing nutjob celebrity, who will increase taxes for middle america (false), and won't protect this country because he doesn't love it (false).
i could go on, but that is enough for now. Please tell me how i'm uninformed and delusional, because these are all facts that anyone who wants to find out can research just like i did.
The fact is McCain's website has the same platform GWB carried in 2000. you can see how many of those issues were acted on based on them still being issues this election.
-Political forum for the respectful discussion of ideas and policies.
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#15.7 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 7:05 PM CDT
Colleen-505704
Tzalaran – I could write all night countering your comments but I am just wasting my time with you because you are obviously voting for Obama and hey you can believe anything you want. I never said you were uninformed and delusional but as with any comments that people make supporting McCain and Palin you Democrats make assumptions and read others minds. I live in a state that has a Democratic Governor and the only thing that was done was increasing our state taxes. Our federal taxes are less now than when Clinton was in office. Yes…you mentioned the current administration that includes the majority of Democrats in Congress. Oppps I guess you forgot that. There is no way you can argue my comment that no matter what, Obama will be a change because he is running against the other party. The true change can only be made within the current party. If you go back into history people always want a change after a few terms but that party cannot solve their problem so then they go back to the other party. So…you are now not voting for McCain because of whom he picked for Vice President? Like many of the Democratic comments you must be psychic to read John McCains mind to know exactly why he chose Palin. I think she is an awesome pick and will be an asset for our country.
Tom-473617 – according to you everything that is wrong is because of Republicans. NOT!!! Please see my note above regarding the Congress. Obama says a lot of things but talk is cheap. Obama talks the talk but does not walk the walk. I have to give him credit for being a great inspirational speaker but his experience does not cut it for me.
New Thread
doris monroe
HOORAY for SARAH
Hillary, when he didn't pick you, I think everything is going to change for him.
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Reply#17 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 2:40 PM CDT
FelyaSoCal
i dont mean to be rude, doris, but please don't ever compare hillary clinton with sarah palin. sarah palin is well accomplished but she would not want to save your child in the case of rape and incest. she does not believe in science and other progressive goals. she is a right wing nut, thats all
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#17.1 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 3:15 PM CDT
More Kool-Aid Please
Gee Whizz....You sound just like that token cheerleader Hockey Mom with NO SUBSTANCE!
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#17.2 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 4:09 PM CDT
Sunshine11
I think that Sen.Obma showed great courage when he didn't choose Sen. Clinton as his VP, and you have to know that considerate amount of pressure was placed on him to do so. But he didn't think that she was the right choice for him, and so he didn't choose her. Even when all the women was saying that they will not vote for him if he didn't put her on his ticket. Regardless whether it was a right or wrong decision, the fact is he made it. She picked his choice.
We cannot say the same about McCain, McCain gave in to pressure from the Republican party, If you really paid any attention to what was going on, or even take a few minutes to read a newspaper, you would know that, Palin was not McCain choice for his VP he really wanted Joe Lieberman, or the Home Land Security guy. But his party pulled rank on him, and told him that they will not support him if he choose any of these people. So he choose Palin out of desperation.
She may turn out to be a good pick, but the fact remains that he can't change anything because he can't even pick his own VP. You all say that he stands up to his own party all the time but on this one important decision, he buckled. So it's like he vote with them again. And lets face it, we all know that McCain didn't choose Palin because he care about women and women issues, he pick her as bait, to collect any one that is unhappy that Sen. Hilary was not chosen.
You all should try to reason things in your head, think for yourselves, don't just talk because you could talk.
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#17.3 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 6:32 PM CDT
Tzalaran
let me see, Hillary started the swiftboating of Obama, and ran a very negative campaign in the primaries. she continued fighting on, and i didn't disagree with her doing so, but ran her campaign into the ground, absorbing enormous debt in the process. The nastiness that she showed him made him choosing her as VP no longer an option.
When they discussed the presidential election, she asked to be told if she was being seriously vetted, and at that time he told her that the chances of him choosing her were very slim.
The only ones who were talking about her as VP were the pundits, not the Obama campaign nor Clinton. i would have had serious doubts on Obama had he chosen someone who was so negative during the primary for the length of time that she was as his running mate.
In choosing Biden, it is my belief that he chose the person who's views on governing were the most like his own. It is common knowledge that he fears for his life should he win this election, and that fear is very founded based on the hate rhetoric that has been showered his was for the past 18 months. Biden's acceptance speech to the senate 30 years ago mirrored the service to country that Obama is outlining today. Biden and Obama are the perfect match for each other as i see it, Biden's experience in washington while still believing in the hope that American can be the shining jewel for freedom, justice, peace and prosperity that it was worldwide for the first 200 years of its existence.
Sarah Palin is an intelligent, devoted, attractive, and talented politician. Yet there are questions about her; abuse of power, why she left her town and state in such massive debt, why she initially took pork projects for her state but is now so against them, that have not been answered, and as the media tried to get to know these things, they were called sexist (i could bring up her comments about Clinton during the primary and show the absolute hypocrisy of the situation, but i'd just be singing to the choir). There is an absolute stonewall why the lobbyists and Rovian disciples get the time to brief her on what to say and how to say it. She is just another young politician that has been taken under the wing of the establishment and promised renown by adhering to their instructions. (She'll be president after McCain for sure, although i really do like Huckabee based on his platform and reluctance to dive into the smear and fear politics in his speech, but McCain is the one who will be able to continue the past 8 years' policies for the next 16...) that is all just simple math as far as politics go. always gotta groom the successor.
Voting for Palin because you have a vagina is a horrible thought process.
vote with her because you think that abortion is always wrong and women shouldn't have that option, vote with her because you think that her experience with Alaska's resources would assist on the energy issues that face the country, vote with her because you believe the words she spoke at the convention or an appearance touched your heart. The truth is that Palin is diametrically opposed to the things that HRC stood for on policy and the direction that HRC herself feels the country needs to go, she said as much at the convention and in the remarks to the media since the nomination of Palin.
Post from different thread
I have always been a republican, and again i will vote that way in this presidential Election, I respect the fact of what obama has accomplished and in the future perhaps he will be ready.. But. not yet
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Reply#20 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 2:43 PM CDT
DGetch
This is exactly right. I would also say that Hilary should be praised for her run and opening the eyes of people to the possibly of more females sharing in the running of this country. I have to say that Palin will be a better Vice-President.
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#20.1 - Mon Sep 8, 2008 3:15 PM CDT
Tzalaran
This is the biggest load of crap that i continually hear. "i've been Republican forever, and it will stay this way this year. maybe in the future Obama will be "ready", but not right now." Just come out and say that no matter how bad the situation is, you buy into the republican theory and won't vote for a Democrat. at least be honest with yourself...
you fawn all over McCain and Palin's experience, yet experience is never a prerequisite for the Presidency. No first term President ever has experience that will prepare them for governing the US, so what is really important is their platform, policies, and vision for the country. The conventions highlighted the difference between Obama and McCain's platform, policies, and vision.
Obama has lofty goals, brilliant rhetoric, and outlined his platform with as much detail as possible, giving examples of the small scale policies that are currently working that will be adopted across the US.
McCain gave us smear, fear, and hate speech. divisive Rove politics with promises of no abortion, drill drill drill, and war.
i was once a solid supporter of McCain. the man i knew in the 80s and 90s had my respect and vote, but this man who has been presented is not the same maverick that he wants to claim he is.
The others who commented about their being a congressional majority for the Dems, but they are getting nothing done in the Senate is not all the fault of Democrats. GW has thrown the veto pen all over any bill that wasn't republican originated, and now the Republican's are throwing the poor congressional rating at the feet of the Dems. The truth is that without both parties working together, our democracy remains broken. Obama has shown the ability to cross party lines, sponsoring bills that reformed campaigns and stopping weapons from going to those who shouldn't have them with Republicans because it was the right thing to do. McCain can't give a single example of working across party lines in the past 10 years (ok maybe 8), but wants me to believe that he will no longer follow the lead of the lobbyists and power elite that now help him run his campaign. That, combined with his long talked about penchant for shooting from the hip and fiery temper, mixed with his disposition to use american force and play big bully on the block (exemplified of his speaking about Iraq before we had dealt with Afghanistan and the Taliban) provide serious questions about his disposition and fitness for the presidency.
Obama, through the rigors of his long presidential bid, has withstood criticism, all out attacks, and some intense backlash. He has never stooped to the levels of his opponent, keeping the discussion on issues, and the difference between his and his opponents views. Honestly, if anyone ever compared me to Brittney or Paris would get socked in the mouth the first time i saw them... He has shown the ability to work with his rivals for the betterment of all, and that has been his primary focus. This has shown that he possesses the restraint and judgment to make the necessary decisions when dealing with those who do not share his worldview. His openness to drop preconditions when dealing with foreign leaders shows that he appreciates the differences between cultures, not that he wants to bring them here, but knows that without clear, direct diplomacy can we really begin the path to peace. Many countries that are hostile to the US are angry because of the actions of the American government toward them, and if we refuse to talk to them until they do certain things they have no reason to come to the table and deal with American arrogance. By dropping preconditions, he is in the position to meet with leaders and work out the path to open peace. This is something that has been severely lacking in the current administration, and i see no reason to believe that McCain will offer a difference in this regard.
We have allowed our deep rooted pride in our country to be perverted into an ideological nightmare on the world stage. This downward path on the world stage has taken a turn for the worse with the debacle in Iraq, combined with the mismanagement and affronts to international law to make the call to justice a hollow joke when spoken by the current administration. Working to repair the bonds that the U.S. had with countries across the world is something that is desperately needed right now, and from what i have seen, Obama is better dispositioned to affect these estranged relationships with other nations and bring them back into the cause of justice. This is what the American people deserve, and McCain has basically stated that he will not approach foreign policy like this, and the people of this country deserve more than that.
