what is politics?

[Tzalaran]

To quote a band i often listen to:

"Politics is the control of wealth and power. People are conditioned to view politics as petty and boring, enabling those in power to stay in power."

Governments are only formed to control an economy, deciding who gets what, when, and how. I was told this in a World History 1 class, and for the most part i've found it to be true.

What needs to be done in order for the perception of politics to change from "petty and boring"?

How can you convince people that an active voice in political proceedings is important for them on a daily basis?

[rue]

I think that when the population starts to get more obvious results in matters that they care about will be when people start to be more active and start to care more. We have politicians on such a high pedestal "common" people feel that their views and goals are so different then the high and mighty. I hope to see some views changeing in this regard so that maybe the politicians will be taken down a few pegs. With the apparent sway of opinion towards bush I am hopeing that the general public will start to make their voices heard, and the peoples ideas, and goals take precedence of power and money.

[kriste0]

That most people don't understand is that a consortium of "old money" people run ALL economies. This is a group that meets regularly in Belgiium. They include names of royalty as well as the Rothschilds and Gettys and also include political names such as Kissinger.

I would imagine that many arms manufacturers are included which dictates where wars are fought and with what weapons. Bush is simply a puppet of this group.

Many Presidents have come out of the Skull and Bones Club of Yale University where they train the next leaders. Look for the schools that excel in Political Science and you have a hint as to where the next leaders in politics will come from.

The consortium has set monetary standards across the globe for hundreds of years. Members change occasionally, but for the most part, the original members have made so much money that they remain in the group. Don't think for a moment that the President of this country is not taking orders from "above."

Do not be fooled by politics. Only 20% of Americans vote because most don't believe their vote will count. It will at the local level but not for the Presidency. The electoral college votes for President and hasn't always followed the popular vote. Dewey vs Truman is a prime example.

There are supposed to be three branches of government with only the Congressional branch being able to make laws...NOT! There are hundreds of "Presidential Orders" that would take us down in a heartbeat. It was a Presidential Order that caused the wire-tapping of calls overseas recently. I was amazed that the Supreme Court slapped the "weeds" hands on that one.

I have heard talk for years about another American Revolution. Our own sons and daughters will shoot us if we try. I've asked people in the military if they'd actually do that, and to a man, have said they would if ordered to do so. This includes Federal Branches of the Government.

When Benjamin Franklin walked out of the meeting that created the Constitution he said, "We've given you a republic, if you can keep it." Hell, we've never even HAD one! We're also not, and never have been a democracy. We have a capitalistic form of government which personally, makes me sick! It's all about greed of one sort or another.

The Federal Goverment was formed initially to deal with trade and ambassadorial issues only. It was not intended to interfere with the rights of each state to govern itself. In the Constitution, it plainly states that if a State does not think the Federal Goverment is handling their affairs properly, they have a right to seceed from the union of States. This is what South Carolina tried to do which started the Civil War. The issue was NEVER about slavery, but the winner's of any war write the history books.

The 16th Amendment to the Constitution, regarding income tax, was NOT passed by the 2/3 majority of the states. Oklahoma and Kentucky refused to pass it. The guy in charge of the votes was on his way out of office. He decided to say that the amendment was passed in spite of the facts. Therefore, the government, in all its glory, acted on it. This Amendment has been challenged many times and has always lost in the Supreme Court. Why? Because the government needs the money to throw its weight around...at our expense. They need to make us subject to the governments will.

Another thing most Americans don't realize is that we own nothing. You may have a deed to a property that you've paid off but you still don't own it! Just try not paying taxes on the property and see how quickly you lose it, whether it be a car or land. The government allows us to use these things, at our expense, but we never own them. The government gives and the government takes away.

The right to bear arms has come under increasing attack since President Reagan was shot. This is a fundamental right we have but the "guns kill people" idiots are bound and determined to make us defenseless. Hell, the National Guard would only have to herd us up and move us out if we had no weapons. Be assured, it will eventually pass and we will lose another basic freedom our forefathers fought so hard for.

At least our freedom of speech is still intact, for the most part. If you're in politics, you have distinct limitations unless you are very powerful. How many of the powerful have fallen? It happens everyday. They get out of line in the least little way and, poof! They're gone!

I could go on and on about this subject, little of it in a positive light. If there were a better place to be, I would have already moved there. America is not the last bastion of anything. Our goverments arrogance knows no bounds. We go where we have no business going and do the unthinkable. The FBI and CIA try to keep us out of the worst stuff the world wants to throw at us but they have their own games and agendas to follow as well.

Oops! I started in again. Sorry. Responses are welcomed and I will debate to the hilt with anyone until they prove me wrong. I don't believe that is possible with what I've stated above. Keep your temper and use logic when dealing with me. I'll just ignore you otherwise.

Kriste0

[Tzalaran]

welcome Kriste!

i agree with most of your statements, but won't respond to most of them to keep this thread on topic.

i've become of the opinion that for a revolution to happen in this country it will have to use the tools of the system to get its start. much like the new deal, and the progressive party of the early 1900's, there needs to be a voice in the political wilderness heard shouting about new ideas for the american people to rally around. a new platform will probably just be amalgamated into one of the two big parties currently dominating our political culture, just as the progressives were, but we have been faced with a zero-sum, one voice or the other choice for far too long.

i think that there is a middle ground that appeals to most americans, and someone with enough charisma who is willing to rattle the cages of the "ruling elite" while steering clear of corruption can turn the tables to the benefit of the people.

feel free to express your opinions openly here. that is what this place has been made for. (feel free to start new threads as well... i haven't had the time to start all the ones i have planned, but i look forward to debating with you. ;D)